Dayton Stories Project
Story Circle Session #052495.2
Dayton Jewish Center
Dayton Ohio
May 24, 1995
Memories of Dayton
Interviewer: Marilyn Klaben Recorder: Sarah Sessions Transcriber: Unknown Transcribe Typist: Sue Broadstock
Participants: Sheila Ramsey, Florence Mayerson, Bert Lieberman, Edith Casher, Claire Jacobs, Don Cohen, Katie Blatt, Claudia Watson, Edith Slatzker, Hyman "Mitzi" Carne, Carol Pavlofsky
This session lasts approximately 38 minutes.
The following transcription of the session has been edited, with repeated phrases or interruptions deleted to make the text flow more smoothly. It is suggested that visitors who find the text interesting take the time to listen to the audio portion of this session. A more detailed text will eventually be added.
Marilyn Klaben opened the story circle and explained how one works. Participants introduced themselves and the story circle began without a topic.
Edith Slatzker
I think most everybody here knows more about Dayton-much earlier history of Dayton. But we came to the Veteran’s Administration Hospital, lived on the grounds up there, and had my three children while we lived there; they were like, raised on a college campus. They’re very nostalgic about it. My kids are now 42 and 38. And one of them is still in Dayton. I had no idea-never, ever thought about moving-Dayton, Ohio just sorts fell in by accident. I grew up in Montana.
Florence Mayerson
That triggered a thought, something way, way back in my memory. When I was a little kid-I’ve always had family in Dayton, I’m from Cincinnati-but I remember, we used to love to come to Dayton, because we would always gather the family and go on picnics out to the VA. And they always had bands out there on a Sunday night or some such, I dunno. We’d get in our Model T Ford and truck on up to Dayton and oh, we loved to come and go out there.
Woman
I think it must have been very important in the early years. By the time we got here, it was beginning to go downhill a little bit. When we came here, it was supposedly medicine second to none, medical care second to none. And then in became medical care equal to that in the community....
Florence Mayerson
The one thing that I think is interesting-the Jewish Federation used to be housed down in the Wright Federal building down on Salem Avenue. I was very active in it at the time, that was in my early years in Dayton. And Dorothy Moyer-you all remember Dorothy Moyer was very, very active- we worked long and hard to raise money to get the pool built out here, which was the first thing that was built here before the building or anything. And I remember the day when it opened, and Dorothy Moyer and Syliva Siegle-she ought to be here, she can remember lots of stories-and I remember we were all, course we were so .....then. Oh God, I don’t remember, somebody’d have to look it up, I don’t really remember, it’s a long time. But the pool was here long before the building was built. By like, ten years or something. And we are still so fortunate, they were just so smart to get such a huge tract of land. I mean, this was out in nowheresville. I remember when they all first came out here to look at the land, they all got chiggers. They were all miserable-I think they may have even asked me to come out too. But it was such a smart move on their part to get such a beautiful track of land out here .
Claire Jacobs
Florence, excuse me. I had an argument with my husband about who gave the land. I said it was us, and Nate Sanders. Is that right?
Bert Lieberman
That’s what I understand. That Nate Sanders donated the original land, and then another big tract was given by the Moyers.
Florence Mayerson
It was a wonderful day, ‘cause they were all so happy......finally arrived. And it took a lot of work and a lot of love. I’m not sure just what the dynamics were at that point yet, but the fact is....
Man
It was the Jewish Community Council.
Florence Mayerson
The JCC, right. And then it was the Center and the Federation. But the Center is under the agents of the Federation, is that correct? [Group confirms this]. It was the JCC, the Jewish Community Council, originally, that started the whole ball rolling. And we used to house things, all kinds of clubs; children’s clubs, teenage clubs, and schools. Wherever we could catch a place to meet with ‘em, you know. And it’s a lot easier the way it is now.
Claire Jacobs
Are any of you people aware that there used to be a community center on Green Street? Well, I’m goin’ back 60 or 70 years ago. But Jane Fisher was there, that’s where we all met and took dancing lessons, elocution lessons. It was on the east end, off brown. It was a quiet place, it was a house, a big home. That was the original Jewish Center. I mean, as long as your project should go back that far.
Bert Lieberman
All of our people, the Jewish people, were on the east end. When I was a small child, at theat time most of us went to Emerson School I went there through the second grade, I remember. And we attended synagogue, there as a Linden Avenue Synagogue and there was a Wyoming Street Synagogue. And I remember that all of our people were more or less in the area between Brown Street, Firth Street, Whitman, Jones, Street; most of our people lived in that area. Rogge Street. I was born on Clay Street; well, St. E, and we went to Clay Street immediately after that. Then we lived on Jones Street, and we actually lived on Fifth Street at one time. And as I said, some of us migrated across the river and we lived on Edgewood at that time. At that time the youngsters attended Longfellow. I remember on Wayne Avenue, there was a Goatzwigz Beer Garden, on Wayne between Fifth and where the synagogue was, on the west side of the street. And a lot of people met there. We were little then, and we used to tag along. I remember that there was a shakeh, which is a-Orthodox kill the animals in a certain manner that doesn’t harm the animal. In the least cruel way, I should say, without pain. And that was located right off of Wayne Avenue. And I remember the Wayne Avenue market, Joe and Millie Zeppah.
Woman
That was my sister. It was Ida.
Bert Lieberman
Ida, yeah. They had a stand in the market there.
Don Cohen
In the general market, but there was a kosher stand?
Bert Lieberman
I don’t know if you remember, there used to be a market downtown. This was before that. All of the farmers, and all the people that sold produce came to that area, and it was called the Wayne Avenue market. It was kinda like a flea market, only they sold food at the time.
Woman
And everybody shopped there. It was the whole Wayne Avenue. They had the chicken guy which sold the kersen. Sold that across the street from Minnie Ruden’s mother. And the fish store was-hm, you know I’m old. Fern, Fern had the fish store. So every Thursday night, everybody would go on Wayne Avenue and they’d buy the groceries from Mrs. ah-Minnie Ruden’s mom-Berline. She’s older than me too. Thursday, that’s when I went shopping because there wasn’t that much in fridges, we had an icebox. We didn’t have electric refrigerators then.
We didn’t have electric refrigerators then. And we bought the fish there from Mr. Fern, and make [?] fish the next day, if anybody knows what that is. And we’d get the chickens, and then we’d take it to the sheykeh, which was the man that killed them And like you said, the reason we feel that this is the way to do it is because they used to cut the jugular vein, and they had no pain, they died instantly. And they did the cow that way too. Well, years ago there was a Limeberg’s Bakery, and that O.K. Bakery, and Schneider’s. There was three of them. I was a little girl then. I’m talking 70 years ago.
The group discusses bakeries and the market area. Mitzi Carne comes in and introduces himself. The group discussed Dayton Schools.
Marilyn Klaben
Now, you were saying about the synagogues, about how one was on Wyoming. So were those the precursor of like, Beth Abraham, Beth Jacob and Temple? Or were these totally different?
Woman
The Russians, the ones who came from Russia was the Wyoming Street schul. And the ones that-they called them Lutvaks, which were from Lithuania or anything else besides Russians. And unfortunately, my father was a Lutvak and my mother was Russian, but he wound up in a Russian schul.
Woman 2
The Wyoming Street synagogue was the precursor to Beth Jacob. And the [someone talks at the same time] was the precursor Beth Israel.
A general discussion followed about these building and about Woodland Cemetery, which is right next to the former Wyoming Street Synagogue.
Claire Jacobs
Let’s talk about Green Street. Jane Fisher was an old maid, and she ran the roost. Whatever she said was what went. And I had my bridal shower in Green Street; in fact, I have a picture right in front of it. And we always used to go there, you know, it was very nice. But once I went with my mother to a meeting, ‘cause my mother was made the Chairman to help all the students who didn’t have mothers to go to the college. They had a scholarship fund, and they asked her; she was the representative of Beth Jacob. And so we went to the meeting one night, and they were telling about how much money they got from the Red Feather-it wasn’t Red Feather then-and how much money they spent on Jane Fisher, and I think Jenny Kaplan was there. You remember Jenny Kaplan? And there was about two thousand left to do for the Jewish Community. Like for instance, there was a lot of Jewish people that was traveling through town, who ran out of money and didn’t know, you know. So the Federation would give them money for [drowned in talk and laughter]. And I was a young girl, and couldn’t understand why it took so much administration and sl little to give. But Jane Fisher would ever tell you. You know, she ran the roost. But it was still fun the right way, you know, everything was just so. And there wasn’t a big amount that they had to work with . We always wished for a Jewish Center. And even my children didn’t get the Jewish Center, my grandchildren reap the benefits. It’s a wonderful thing.
Bert Lieberman
I remember when I was a youngster, at that time we couldn’t afford to really camp or anything like that, and one day a year, Sanders, who owned a van company, furniture, at that time, used to have Sanders Day. And we would take all the Jewish kids, and put ‘em on school buses and take ‘em out to Eastwood Park. And we had a box lunch, and we had the time of our life that one day. That was our camp, when we were little.
Woman
They never had children, the Sanders. And they gave us land here. I’m sure that we’d probably not have the Center for years to come, if it wouldn’t be for them.
Woman 2
Didn’t they own the house across from Temple Israel, too?
Woman
A wide, Spanish-type home, yes. That’s where they lived.
A general discussion followed about picnics, bingo and good times at Eagle’s Park.
Claire Jacobs
That was really our summer place. That’s the difference between the children then and the children today. My father had a truck, not a car. And he’d put two benches in the back, and we’d take all our relatives that just came from Europe and we’d all take ‘em to Eagle’s Park. And the thrill was to get dizzy on that thing, you know. And I got real dizzy. And that was our thrill. Now, kids go to Disneyworld and they are bored. They’re bored with it already. But we got something joy out of it. I think we had a better life. We didn’t have money, but we had a good life. I mean, relatives just came over to your house without an invitation. And I remember the ones that just came from Europe used to say, like we were siting down to eat and they were so embarrassed, they said, “Well, we just got through eating.” And they really didn’t. Once we convinced them, you should’ve seen how they ate.
Woman
They said you were a gaveer.
Claire Jacobs
And next to them we were. A gaveer is wealthy. We were sure wealthy; we lost our house in the Depression.
Sheila Ramsey
Lakeside was really a big part of the Black community too. I know, when I came up, we could go any time. But my brother and sisters, there were only certain days that the Black people could go to Lakeside. I’ve heard them talk about that before. But it was just like, it was everybody’s place, regardless of whether or not everybody went at the same time.
The group reminisced that there were dances there all the time. Also in the Crystal Ballroom at Forest Park, where they jitterbugged all the time. They talked about other great places to dance in the area. There were clubs downtown as well, such as Greystone and Lance’s; you could also dance at the Biltmore and the Van Cleve Hotels.
Marilyn Klaben
Do you remember Peanut Playhouse behind Goody Goody? My parents used to take me to play. Meredith Moss, who we invited, used to organize a lot of our high school friends to put on plays. And that’s one of my fondest memories of growing up, was going to that little place, it was a little shack with peanuts all over the ground. And all the high school kids put on plays for us little ones, and we just loved them.
The group remembers that prior to that, kids used to go to the YMCA for their drama parties. And that had a name too. They remember that there was a beach there, picnic areas and a dance floor. Swimming stopped there when the river became too contaminated.
Edith Slatsker
My folks owned a bar and grill during the war. It was so bad, we had so many soldiers coming in, they made it off limits. During World War I, 1919. They’d come in and dance and carry on, and then the MP’s came in.
Carol Pavlofsky
In my high school days, we had Club Coed upstairs there [at Greystone]. It was set up like a night club, and all the kids went there on a Friday and Saturday nights. For very minimal cost, you could go.... They had live music; we had such a good time. We used to all go downtown, and nobody through anything about going downtown at night, or changing buses. Basketball games were at the Coliseum, and we would come home on the bus and change downtown, and meet the kids from the other schools at Third and Main.
The group discussed theaters that used to be downtown.
Bert Lieberman (?)
There’s a little historical thing I can tell you about. It was at 424 E. Fifth Street, there was a building that was called the Balsam Black Building, and it was built around the Civil War time, around 1865. Between Brown-it’s right off of Brown Street in the Oregon District. That building, during Prohibition, on the third floor was a speakeasy. The building was originally built by a fellow, and he manufactured ladders, wooden ladders, in that building. It was actually build around Civil War times, 1865, around in there. We had a furniture store in that building for years, and I know that the third floor was originally a speakeasy. It had the peephole door, and it had a dance floor, and it had a raised area where they used to sit on tables, things like that. We had our store on the main floor and we stored furniture on the second floor. There were seven furniture stores, all on one side, and three on the other. By 1965, we had the last one left. Where Bonnett’s Back Issue was, my dad had a used furniture store before the Depression. Of course, he didn’t stay in business after the Depression, but that was his first business endeavor. He had it before, but he got out during the Depression, and he worked someplace else for $12 a month at that time, in the thirties, around ‘35.
Claire Jacobs
I went to Stivers High School because, all the Jewish kids went to Steele, but the car fare was eight cents a day. Three cents, and a penny for a transfer. Any my mother said she couldn’t send me there. There was five Jewish kids in the whole of Stivers, in my class. June 3rd, I’m celebrating sixty years since I graduated Stivers. And i gotta tell you where our affair’s gonna be. MCL South. There were girls who told us later on at our annual affair, that she would take a pair of shoes to school, wear it, and then her mother would wait till she got home from school to put on the same pair of shoes to go to the grocery. That’s how tough things were. It was really bad. We used to get together at these reunions, it’s unbelievable. And yet, everybody existed and was happy. At Lionel Street, we never had a key to our house. Nobody ever took anything, it was just, it was wonderful. And now with all the money, look how bad it is.
Bert Lieberman
We ate a lot of bologna in those days. We ate a lot of rice and milk.
Florence Mayerson
My husband tells stories about his father who had a grocery store on West Fifth Street, right across from the YMCA. And he kept a lot of people from going hungry. My father-in-law kept a lot of people from going hungry because he used to put them on the tab, and just keep them on the tab as long as they could, and they paid when they could. You know, to this day, you still meet people who knew Manny’s dad, and they loved him. They just have wonderful things to say about him. It was a community feeling; it was a Black and White community- well, I guess by that time, it was mostly already Black-there was so much understanding between the Black and White communities in those days. Maybe it was surface, I don’t know. But it was a good feeling.
Sheila Ramsey
I remember Rubenstein’s. It was always so exciting; it seems like we only got to Rubenstein’s on Saturdays. We always went, and I remember I thought it was the biggest store in the world. They had everything in there. It was like Meijer, I guess. I can’t remember anything real specific, except about how I felt when we’d get in our little car, and me and my mother and father, and we’d go to that parking lot in the back, and upstairs, I think all of the appliances were, and they had furniture and clothes, and we’d be shoppin’ and it was great. I’ll never forget that. I don’t know how my parents shopped, but I remember we went there.
