Historic Churches still standing

Dayton Memories > Historic Churches still standing

Historic Churches still standing

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newsnot 404 posts Jun 20, 2014 5:08 PM	Bethel Home Missionary Baptist Church S. Paul Lawrence Dunbar and Home Streets This looks like a neat old church. The area has been almost totally razed but homes left standing seem in good repair. Seems like you are in no mans land around it. I will attend there as soon as possible.
RIVERDALE RAT 615 posts Jun 20, 2014 5:19 PM	I would love to know the story behind the old house that sits at 236 PLD. It looks like it may have once had a good size piece of land behind it for barns or outbuildings,it even has the old original hitching post out in front by the curb. I'm sure some of the old timers at the church would know.
newsnot 405 posts Jun 20, 2014 5:27 PM	Riverdale, now that's funny. I was just crusing courtesy vpike and I had just passed that house. I have been by it in person in the past. It seems in better condition than the last time I saw it.As you go north on Paul Lawrence the neighborhoods seem to improve.
RIVERDALE RAT 616 posts Jun 20, 2014 5:44 PM	newsnot... I was right across the street on Google street view when you went by a while ago, I saw you pass the house and that's why I mentioned it.
RIVERDALE RAT 617 posts Jun 20, 2014 5:59 PM	newsnot... If you want to see a really old historic church, take a buzz over to 1420 E 4th street and look at that old 2 story brick. I think that is one of the oldest in Dayton and if they don't do something with it pretty soon, it's going to either fall apart or be beyond repair.
newsnot 407 posts Jun 20, 2014 7:18 PM	Riverdale, I am surprised I never noticed that church before. Is it still active? Looks in decent shape.We should end with a large list of churches.I have a lot of historical things on my plate now.
newsnot 408 posts Jun 20, 2014 7:30 PM	Tabernacle Baptist Church South Broadway and Home
RIVERDALE RAT 620 posts Jun 20, 2014 9:08 PM	It doesn't look active, the sanctuary windows are boarded up on the west side of the building. That's one of those old timey churches with the sanctuary on the second floor (another one like that is the old Emanuel Baptist at 3rd and Terry across from where Dafflers used to be) Getting back to the one on 4th street, as I recall the original denomination had been gone from there even in my day. When I lived in the neighborhood there was a Pentecostal Group using it. I remember the drums, tambourine's, shouting and singing. They used to take good care of the place, I have no clue what happened past that. Last Edited by RIVERDALE RAT on Jun 20, 2014 9:14 PM
RIVERDALE RAT 621 posts Jun 20, 2014 10:36 PM	Personally If I had to vote for the most beautiful old historic protestant church in Dayton, my vote would probably have to go to the Linden Ave Baptist, It dates back to 1800s and it's gorgeous. It sets on the corner of East 4th street and Linden Ave.
newsnot 410 posts Jun 21, 2014 8:06 AM	Zion Hill Baptist Grosvenor & West 3rd
luv my dayton 628 posts Jun 21, 2014 10:41 AM	Riverdale have to agree with you except if were discussing the same property at Linden and fourth the church doors still open. Will do a drive by today to verify. Do know they had an after school program for kids in the area and went there a few years back to have income tax done. Always looks well maintained. Emmanual Baptist at 3rd and Terry still open and have been there a time or two. Problems churches are having is they aren't growing due to people and youth looking to be entertained and heading to the mega churchs. The days of actually being fed spirtually through a personal relationship with God and Christ have been replaced with the worlds idea of godliness. Last Edited by luv my dayton on Jun 21, 2014 10:58 AM
RIVERDALE RAT 625 posts Jun 21, 2014 6:43 PM	luv my Dayton...I'm sure they have kept the doors in good working order as they have everything else that's visible about the property. I can recall as a child passing by there and thinking how the place reminded me of a fairytale castle because everything was so pristine, pretty and perfect. It's amazing and encouraging that so many years later there are still people who are that dedicated to maintaining the property. I wonder if the bells are still in good working order, I can't recall ever having heard them. That's another thing that has changed in our society, churches now get reported for noise violations (and in some cases even sued) if they happen to annoy a crotchety neighbor by ringing their bells. Pleased to hear Emanuel is still functioning as a church. I couldn't agree more about the Mega Churches I feel about as blessed attending those services as I do leaving a basketball game. some of those places appear to be 'For profit' operations and in my opinion should be taxed accordingly. All of the Catholic churches are old, the newest church I can remember is Immaculate Conception and it should be nearing it's 50th anniversary. I still remember the little pink one that used to be in the old converted bowling alley. Last Edited by RIVERDALE RAT on Jun 21, 2014 6:49 PM
winterfritz 23 posts Jun 22, 2014 9:30 AM	Well, I attend Linden Avenue Baptist Church (est.1873) on a regular basis, and can attest that not only is it open, but also….it’s a vibrant and contributing member of the community… That being said, I was there today for Sunday services and in the pastor’s sermon he stated that Linden Avenue was originally called something else (he didn’t say what) and that the members of the early congregation petitioned the city to rename the street “Linden” after a street in Berlin, Germany……
olds88 264 posts Jun 22, 2014 12:29 PM	First Baptist on Monument is very old and played a significant roll in Dayton history.My grandmother belonged for over 88 years and I also for awhile.Some of the names of members was like a whos who of Dayton.Still nice today and very well ten care of.
luv my dayton 631 posts Jun 22, 2014 1:47 PM	Winterfritz: my family had friends who lived around the corner from the church on Center st and also had a small market on fifth st near Linden. Family's name was Zappe, John, Pauline and three daughters named Judy, Cindy and Jane. Wonderful family and may have attended the church. Have no idea what generation you are but wondering if you may have known them. Last Edited by luv my dayton on Jun 22, 2014 1:48 PM
RIVERDALE RAT 628 posts Jun 22, 2014 5:59 PM	winterfritz...Good information, I am more than pleased to hear the church is alive and well, nothing more sad than to watch churches like that become abandoned and fall into disrepair. olds88... I played on around and behind that old church more times than I could ever remember. Coming out of the rear entrance of the YMCA there used to be a walkway that ran east and west where you could hang out and watch the river. We used to play hide and seek all around there. I actually still have a 1/4 inch scar on the heel of my right hand from where I slipped and fell on a small shard of glass in the parking lot just west of the church (between the church and the YMCA) That used to be a pay parking lot and I would stop in and talk to the guy that ran it, can't recall his name but he had a neat little indoor office right there under the overhang and he always had the coffee pot on and heat and air to catch a break from the weather extremes. Great memories. Last Edited by RIVERDALE RAT on Jun 22, 2014 6:02 PM
winterfritz 24 posts Jun 22, 2014 6:15 PM	LMD, Sorry to say that I’m not from that neighborhood although I am frequently passing through it, either on my way to and from Linden Avenue Baptist Church or heading into the bowels of the Lower East End… I am on Center Street quite a bit though….I’m afraid that most of the homes have fallen into disrepair; although there is what appears to be a pretty well taken care of, and large community garden of raised beds to be found there……..
Mark1984 167 posts Jun 23, 2014 4:52 PM	Looking over the posts. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned St. Mary's Catholic Church on Xenia Ave. It has to be one of the larger historic churches still in use. The towers certainly are an easy reference point to pick out in this end of Dayton. I know the building is in excess of 100 years old and is on the National Register of Historic Places. There is a thread about St. Marys I started quite some time ago.
RIVERDALE RAT 630 posts Jun 25, 2014 8:04 AM	Mark1984... I think we were mainly discussing the protestant churches. I would be hard pressed to think of ANY Catholic church that isn't old, as I mentioned elsewhere the newest Catholic church I know of in Dayton proper is Immaculate Conception and it should be nearing it's 50th anniversary. Holy Trinity, St. Josephs, Holy Rosary, Sacred Heart all of those parishes are somewhat ancient. Last Edited by RIVERDALE RAT on Jun 25, 2014 8:11 AM
Mark1984 168 posts Jun 25, 2014 3:15 PM	Protestant churches. Oops! I missed that little detail.
Calhoun 289 posts Jun 25, 2014 6:31 PM	Mark--The conversation tended that way, but it wasn't part of the initial thread. What's interesting about the "somewhat ancient" Catholic parishes in the downtown area is they were founded by/for specific nationalities. For example, St Mary's was the "German church", St Joe's the "Irish church", etc. Back in the late 90s when the Archdiocese decided to "cluster" Dayton parishes due to a lack of priests, there were older folks in various parishes who refused to merge with other parishes due to longstanding nationalistic issues. Some people have long memories.
RIVERDALE RAT 633 posts Jun 26, 2014 3:41 AM	Calhoun... That’s an interesting bit of trivia for sure and somewhat ironic in a way. Do you happen to know anything else about the mergers? I have been trying to find someone that knows which parishes were closed and which are still functioning. I know Sacred Heart stood closed for a few years and was eventually turned over to a Vietnamese congregation. It would seem to me that most of the inner city parishes would be struggling with declining membership. I have no earthly idea what congregation parishes like St. Joes would be serving these days. Do you know if Holy Family is still functioning? I remember that parish when they had 3 priests and a Monsignor. Looks like their school has been taken over by another entity, but the church I’m not sure about.
Calhoun 290 posts Jun 26, 2014 6:49 AM	Holy Family orignally was clustered with St Mary's, the two churches sharing one priest. A few years ago Holy Family was turned over to a Latin Rite community where pre-Vatican II Masses are now said. St. Mary's then was clustered with St. Benedict, and then eventually with a small chuch in Germantown as well. There were two priests for the three parishes, but I think it's down to one priest currently. Not sure about other parishes in the downtown area. Another point of interest is the Archdiocese turned to Africa to find priests for various inner-city parishes. The pastor at St. Mary's is from Ghana I believe. I have noted a decline in Mass attendance since the African priests have arrived, by the way. I know there is a language barrier involved, and maybe even sadly a bit of good, old-fashioned racism. Keep in mind many of the parish members in the downtown Catholic churches are nearly as ancient as the churches themsleves Last Edited by Calhoun on Jun 26, 2014 6:50 AM
Mark1984 169 posts Jun 26, 2014 6:26 PM	Calhoun. Interesting that you mention how some Catholic churches were funded for certain nationalities. On that thought. There is an obviously Polish Catholic church on Valley St. St. Adalbert. The neighborhood at one time was predominately Polish, Hungarian and Czech. Hence the Polish and Czech clubs that are still active in that area.
RIVERDALE RAT 635 posts Jun 26, 2014 8:45 PM	Calhoun… Thanks for all the good information. I had heard that the shortage of priests was a serious problem these days, but I had no idea that things had deteriorated to the extent that you just described. With the priest shortage being that severe and the congregations aging, I’m sure that numerous church closings will be inevitable. I hope they at least escape the wrecking ball. Many people don’t realize that it takes a healthy chunk of cash to maintain those large buildings. Maintenance, upkeep and utilities alone are substantial. Small/dwindling, retired congregations often equals little revenue in the collection plates . Mark1984… I remember St. Adalbert when it was a little silver domed parish on the second floor of a school building. I was told that they had expanded and actually built a newer church behind the old one someplace, but I never verified that. BTW all of the parishes in North Dayton used to be highly ethnic. The priest at Holy Cross on Leo spoke with such a thick heavy accent, you could barely understand a word he said. St. Stephens maybe less ethnic than the others (as I recall) and Holy Rosary’s church ladies made the best cabbage rolls on the planet, (Hungarian or Polish I’m not sure) Last Edited by RIVERDALE RAT on Jun 26, 2014 8:47 PM
Calhoun 291 posts Jun 28, 2014 9:06 PM	Mark/Rat--My aunt was married to a first generation Polish-American, they attended St Adalbert back in the day. I remember going to Mass with them in the late 60s, a very devout congregation. Very true about the upkeep costs on the old parishes, St. Mary's is in the process of replacing the roof. We're still about $10K short of the replacement cost, have been been seeking donations since last fall.
RIVERDALE RAT 643 posts Jun 28, 2014 11:11 PM	Calhoun... I often traveled around to various parishes with my Grandmother; I just posted an article on the Personal Remembrances page that explains that in detail. My best memory of St. Mary’s is the electric votive light stand that you had in the main vestibule/lobby. The first time my Grandma set eyes on this contraption I thought she was going to have a cow. While she favored the fireproof factors of the stand, she thought it was absurd and borderline sacrilegious for this modern device to take the place of candles in a house of worship. Needless to say that this was an ultra modern device for the mid 60s, she was even less impressed when she placed her dime into the slot and her electric candle failed to light. We left that day with her vowing to write a letter to the Monsignor and voice her displeasure. I'm not sure how this ever turned out, but it's a funny memory from days gone by. Last Edited by RIVERDALE RAT on Jun 29, 2014 12:13 AM
RIVERDALE RAT 644 posts Jun 29, 2014 12:06 AM	Here is a couple of YouTube video links for the St. Mary's crowd. Maybe you have already seen them and maybe some of you haven't. The Star of Dayton - St. Mary's Catholic Church, Twin Towers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2MhOYeRw6A A Mighty Fortress Is Our God At St Marys Cathedral Dayton Ohio. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8lrfCE2u00
Mark1984 171 posts Jun 29, 2014 6:06 PM	Rat. I have a relative that lives there on Church St and I'm there a lot. I've come across the parking lot behind the church or be in the right place. All the windows were open and I heard someone in there playing that organ who knew what they were doing! Sounded awesome! My choice of music is heavy metal. But I could've stood there for hours listening to that. I've been told that the bass pipes on that organ can make the floor in the sanctuary rumble. That's power!
rdebross 112 posts Jun 29, 2014 6:24 PM	Riverdale Rat - I attended St. Mary School from 1953 - 61. I remember the electric candle stand at the back of the church. It seemed in bad taste to me even as a kid. Don't know why Msgr. Beckmeyer bought it. He generally had a knack for selecting only the best art and materials for "his" church. It may have been a safety issue but real votive candle stands were nearby. Maybe wax was in short supply during WWII and electric candles were an alternative. Just a hunch. Last Edited by rdebross on Jun 29, 2014 6:25 PM
rdebross 113 posts Jun 29, 2014 6:48 PM	Mark1984 - The Austin pipe organ in St. Mary Church (circa 1924) is indeed an awesome instrument. It was fully restored about ten years ago to its original glory and then some. Joe Geiger was choir director and organist during my years at St. Mary during the 1950's and '60's. The combination of choir and organ enhanced the church's catholic masses and celebrations to an emotional art form. Indeed the floors would quake when the instrument's bass pipes sounded and the choir's soprano voices echoed off the marble and masonry walls of the structure like some type of angels above. I often felt like I was getting a little preview of the heavenly praise that surrounds the Almighty.
Calhoun 292 posts Jun 29, 2014 7:57 PM	When the organ was refurbished back in the 90s, volunteers were sought among the congregation to do some of the grunt work in an effort to keep the cost down. I was one of the folks who did cleaning of various organ components and the loft. Some of those parts/areas were literally pitch black, coated with soot from back in the day when the church was heated with coal.
RIVERDALE RAT 647 posts Jun 30, 2014 9:51 AM	rdebross.. Glad to hear that someone besides me remembers that stand (I wonder what ever became of it) I actually just surmised that he had bought it because it was cheaper to maintain than buying boxes and boxes of candles every month and it was much easier to care for. The wax shortage idea is a good guess as well. I actually don't ever recall a fire starting from a votive light stand other than a time when some vandals poured wax on an alter and lit it on fire with another candle, even then it only burned the altar cloth and charred the marble a bit before going out. Mark1984 I can't recall ever having heard the organ in person, I may have. As a kid one organ sounds the same as another. I never really developed an appreciation for things like that till later in life. I do remember those bells making a bunch of noise though, I wonder if they still ring them except on special occasions?
Mark1984 172 posts Jun 30, 2014 2:11 PM	Riverdale Rat. Yes. The bells still ring. Every day at 6:00 pm. Sometimes I hear them at noon in the weekends. I've heard them ring on Sunday mornings just prior to and at the start of mass. I've also heard them very late on Christmas Eve right before midnight mass. I know that the bells are in the west tower. Looking at the front of the church. That is the tower on the left. I would love to go up in those towers!
RIVERDALE RAT 650 posts Jul 01, 2014 12:15 AM	Mark1984... I bet if you took a video camera and said you were doing a documentary on the bells and their history, the powers that be may let you do just that. I am sure it would include signing a wavier of liability and being escorted, but I bet you could make it happen. You could then post said video on YouTube for all of us to enjoy. I must confess to being a little punk and sneaking up into the bell towers of Holy Family and Holy Rosary. I just couldn't resist the temptation of those wide open towers and the magnificent view they provided. The other churches except for (St. Joseph) all had enclosed towers/domes and wouldn't have been near the fun. I never assailed St. Joseph because the tower wasn't all that high, was blocked on 2 sides by buildings and I worried that some of the workers from Delco would see me up there and call the Rectory. Last Edited by RIVERDALE RAT on Jul 01, 2014 12:18 AM
joanofthe60s 18 posts Jul 20, 2014 11:15 AM	Holy Cross was Lithuanian; St. Stephen was Hungarian and St, Adalbert was Polish. Not sure about Holy Rosary, but here are some great old pictures of St, Adalbert and its people from the 1960s. http://picasaweb.google.com/ondparishes/StAdalbert1960SEraPhotosFromFrEdZukowskiAlbum?feat=directlink#
rdebross 118 posts Jul 20, 2014 1:50 PM	joanofthe60s.. exactly right about the ethnic north Dayton parishes. These parishes were established (early 20th C) to cater to an immigrant population that did not speak much English. Masses were in Latin, but preaching and social life were conducted in the immigrants' languages and cultures. Holy Rosary was established as a non-ethnic parish in the same area for those who were comfortable with English and the general American culture.
rdebross 119 posts Jul 20, 2014 2:04 PM	BTW many of Dayton's early church congregations, Catholic and Protestant, were established by an immigrant population. As the immigrant population became more "Americanized," the congregations dropped much of their ethnic character. You often see evidence of this ethnic start in cornerstones and decor. St. John's United Church of Christ on E. 3rd St. at Sears St. has a stone high above that main door that reads "DEUTSCHE EV - LUTH ST. JOHANNES KIRCHE" (German Evangelical Lutheran St. John's Church). The stained glass windows of St. Mary Church on Xenia Avenue have dedications in the bottom panels in German identifying the donors - Gestiftet von dem Familie Schmidt for example. Last Edited by rdebross on Jul 20, 2014 3:18 PM
RIVERDALE RAT 705 posts Jul 20, 2014 11:37 PM	rdebross...Believe it or not I remember that writing above the main door of St. John's, of course I used to walk by there a lot as a youngster. I remember going inside one day and laying down on the floor in the sanctuary and staring up at the dome for a long time. it was beautiful, hand painted and looked like it belonged in a museum.
joanofthe60s 20 posts Jul 21, 2014 11:04 AM	One can't help but wonder if the ethnic congregations are also affected by the priest shortage. I guess it may not be quite as important to have a priest of a specific ethnicity these days since most people are at least 2nd and 3rd generation and most speak English as their first language.
rdebross 120 posts Jul 21, 2014 12:21 PM	joanofthe60s .. Thanks for posting the link for the St. Adalbert's parish pictures. Loved looking at them. Each told its own story about community, fashion and faith. RiverdaleRat .. Walking by was exactly how I noticed the old stone on St. John's Church. My Patterson Co-op job was out E. Third and I'd walk by several times a week on my way to get a ButterBurger at the White Tower at Patterson Blvd. for lunch. Last Edited by rdebross on Jul 21, 2014 12:28 PM
joanofthe60s 25 posts Jul 21, 2014 2:39 PM	rdebross, you are quite welcome. It makes me happy to post things that others enjoy.
RIVERDALE RAT 709 posts Jul 22, 2014 2:19 PM	Does anyone have any updated or current information on the old historic Fourth Street German Baptist church? The church is located in lower East Dayton at 1420 E 4th street (near Dutoit) The sanctuary windows are now boarded up on the west side of the building and it appears to be abandoned and left to deteriorate. When I lived in the neighborhood (1963) there was a Pentecostal Group using it. If they are letting this property fall to ruin, I would be willing to mount a preservation effort. Can anyone who still lives in the area possibly help with research and or contact information on the current owners? This church is an important part of Dayton history and if we can save it from the wrecking ball, we should.
winterfritz 28 posts Jul 22, 2014 6:59 PM	RR.........just cruised by that church on E. Fourth today.......as of July 18, 2014 there is a public nuisance posted on the door..........
RIVERDALE RAT 710 posts Jul 22, 2014 7:26 PM	Winterfritz... Thank you for sharing that, it's definitely NOT GOOD NEWS! If they have posted it then they have began the legal process to have it declared a public nuisance at which time the property may be seized under the Nuisance Abatement act and demolished. I wonder what type of activity could be going on there? normally they only seek Nuisance Abatement if there is illegal activity such as Drugs, Gambling or Prostitution. It is possible that the structure could be deemed unsafe and a hazard to public safety. I wish someone could stop by there and get the hearing date off of the notice and possibly a contact number for the clerk. This is disturbing, to say the least.
winterfritz 29 posts Jul 22, 2014 7:59 PM	It was at least a 2 page document that was sort of sealed in plastic (I could only read the first page without opening the plastic) and TAPED with masking tape to the door...I'll be by there in the next day or two and will take a more detailed look..........
RIVERDALE RAT 711 posts Jul 22, 2014 8:49 PM	winterfritz...That would be awesome if you could do that. Thank you so much. Hopefully there will at least be a name or a contact number visible somehow. I am going to contact Mayor Whaley's office tomorrow, but I don't expect real positive results.
joanofthe60s 28 posts Jul 23, 2014 2:45 PM	This is terrible news. If I were still living there I would be happy to help. I hope others will be moved to try and save the building.
winterfritz 30 posts Jul 23, 2014 3:19 PM	Here's some info....the place(church on Fourth near Dutoit) seems to be owned by some outfit called "Cadlerock Joint Ventures LTD"....Mike Johnson is the contact person with regards to abated properties.......333-3909 Hope this helps.....WF
RIVERDALE RAT 712 posts Jul 23, 2014 5:40 PM	winterfritz...YES! That is a huge help, without that basic information it's almost impossible to even get started. I truly appreciate your efforts. I will keep you guys updated as I hear/find out things.

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