JeffN 4 post s 6-Apr-2007 2:08 PM	I've been away from Dayton since 1979, the year I graduated from Stebbins High School. It still feels like home. I have such fabulous memories of growing up on Spinning Road. I just wondered if anyone out there would like to share memories, etc., of growing up in Dayton during this era. Do you guys remember: Dr. Creep Parkmoor Chicken BHA Means Better Home Appliances Don Donoher Don Wayne Omar Williams Steve Kirk WTUE Top 40 Big Time Wrestling at Hara The Dayton Gems. Please add to the list! Thanks!
driver62 11 post s 8-Apr-2007 8:46 AM	How about?: Salem drive-in theater North Star drive-in Goldmans Ontario Goody Goody Gold Circle Best (not Best Buy) Brawley's restaurant Arther Treacher's fish and chips Rax roast beef Texaco and Gulf gas stations (none here now) Davue party supply Shakey's Pizza I know there are many more but that's all I can think of at the moment.
JeffN 6 post s 8-Apr-2007 9:59 AM	I remember when Salem's Mall and Children's Palace were the places to shop WAY back in the late 60s. Now Salem Mall isn't even there?? Is that correct? I also heard that the Marion's Pizza close to Dayton Mall Burned down. How sad ... all those cool photos of celebs who came in to do plays in the 70s. All gone. Does anyone know if Marion's will rebuild?
Marck1957 4 post s 8-Apr-2007 11:05 AM	My suggestions for the list of fond memories, 1) Gene "By Golly" Berry from WING 2) The "Man On The Street" report on WING 3) Suttmiller's 4) The Tropics Restaurant 5) Carl Casper's Auto Show at Wampler's Hara Arena 6) The Westward Ho Cafeteria 7) Henrici's Top Of The Mall Restaurant 8) Rike's Christmas Window and train display 9) "Keep Dayton America's Cleanest And Safest City" trash cans 10)The original Victoria Theater and the Palace Theater 11)Those ancient yellow City Transit electric trolleys and their 12 cent childrens fare, as well as the pullcord to ring the bell to get off the bus 12)The Arcade and all those smells there Let's think of some more! Curt? Last Edited on 12-Apr-2007 8:29 AM
driver62 12 post s 9-Apr-2007 7:02 AM	I remember Childrens Palace. I think it's now the Northwest hub for the RTA. Yep, Salem Mall is gone except for Sears...it's still there. Several years ago, the part of the mall where Rikes was located was torn down and a Home Depot stands there now. I don't know about Marions burning down. They still have one on north Dixie. I remember Dr. Creep very well. In fact, he still does a few charity events. My oldest daughter had her pcture taken with him many years ago when he did a show at our church. She's 38 now. Time does fly. Last Edited on 9-Apr-2007 7:05 AM
JeffN 7 post s 9-Apr-2007 3:23 PM	Dr. Creep was fantastic. He has a very nice Web site, although it doesn't seem to be updated on a regular basis www.drcreep.com. I loved going to Rike's at Christmas time. I'm glad they have the windows back up downtown during the holidays. It brings back a lot of memories. I'm glad Marion's still has another location or two ... I hate it about the Dayton Mall restaurant. I love the "Dayton style" pizza (Marion's, Cassano's, Joe's). Cassano's doesn't seem to have quite the same taste as it used to, although it's improved the past couple years. Joe's is still the same! That place is nearly as old as I am (I'm 46).
JeffN 8 post s 10-Apr-2007 9:35 AM	Joe's Pizza is great! It's located on Airway Road, right before Airway turns into East 3rd Street headed toward downtown. I grew up in that area, so I'm real familiar with it. Another decent place is Rick's Pizza on Spinning. I haven't had it in a LONG time though.
JeffN 9 post s 10-Apr-2007 9:37 AM	Hey Marck, those car shows at Hara were great! How about the Kon Tiki theater on Salem? Does anyone remember the little Diner on St. Clair. It was pretty big in the 80s ... I was already gone, but when I would come back for visits we would eat there.
JeffN 10 post s 11-Apr-2007 8:05 AM	I was also saddened to see that another one of my old haunts, the Page Manor Cinema has shut down. I remember that was a state of the art theater back in 1967 or 68 when it opened. Also, for anyone from that neck of the woods (Spinning Road, Airway Road, etc.), does anyone remember the old Spin-Kemp Shoping Center with: The Super Duper Grocery? Houser's Drug Store? Super Duper had a great bakery, and Houser's had a full old-fashioned fountain. I rode my bike there and bought many a pack of baseball cards! Rick's Pizza is still located at the wide of that little shopping center.
driver62 14 post s 11-Apr-2007 9:17 AM	The Diner on St Clair didn't last too long as a diner. I never ate there but I heard the prices were too high. It was empty for quite a while but is now some kind of night club, I believe. The Page Manor theater was closed for sometime and then reopened. It use to show the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" on Saturday nights. I believe the owners reason for closing was the employees kept stealing from him. Last Edited on 11-Apr-2007 9:22 AM
JeffN 11 post s 11-Apr-2007 9:30 AM	The Diner's prices were a little high. The motif suggested it would be less expensive than your typical sit-down reataurant, but it wasn't cheap! The food was good though and it was a cool place. I heard the Page Manor Theater had opened and closed a few times. It's a shame how these places shut down for good. I think Dr. Creep had several events at Page Manor over the years.
DougS 2 post s 13-Apr-2007 1:52 PM	Hey! If you graduated from Stebbins do you rememeber John Hill? He was the shop teacher at Stebbins. John is a good friend of mine. My family was in Dayton (Oakwood) from 1957-1996. I graduated from Oakwood in 1962 and recall most of the places listed in this post. My dad worked at Delco Products downtown for 44 years. The building was torn down. I was in the NCR band and played at the NCR auditorium on South Main St. That building is gone too. Great memories.
JeffN 14 post s 13-Apr-2007 6:18 PM	Doug, I think I do remember Mr. Hill. I didn't have him for class, but I had friends who did. Things have really changed since I left Dayton in 1979. I remember most of Beavercreek was rural!! Amazing, huh?
DougS 3 post s 14-Apr-2007 5:56 AM	Jeff, You've been gone since 1979. I haven't lived there since 1968, but did return to visit my folks in Oakwood until 1996. My next trip there will probably be to go to my dear old(93) mother's burial in Wooland Cemetery. Mom graduated from Stivers. Dayton was a great town to do a lot of things, but those times are gone except in our minds. I sure do remember those "picture shows" at Lowe's (NOT the building supply store-LOL) and the Victory Theatre downtown. I don't know if the old Memorial Hall is still standing or not. My dad and I used to seine minnows at the Stewart Street bridge and then fish for crappies off of the big cement bridge over the Stillwater River at Island Park at Riverside drive. A person would go to jail for that today!(LOL) "Mr. Hill" lives in Beavercreek. He has MS and retired quite a few years ago, but he gets around pretty well.
driver62 15 post s 14-Apr-2007 6:59 AM	Memorial Hall is still standing but not much goes on there anymore. Most everything happens at the Schuster Center which stands where Rikes use to be at Second and Main.
Marck1957 7 post s 15-Apr-2007 10:23 AM	Doug's comments on fishing off of the Helena Street Bridge at Island Park brought back some fond memories! My father would take us to that playground on weekends to play. Does anyone remember the big red firetruck that you could play on there? Or the old airplane you could climb in and around on? Boy, you wouldn't see that in a playground these days! I also remember that there were multiple water fountains all around the flagpole there. I think at one point in time they all ran water all of the time. The bandshell, which still stands, was a wonderful place to spend a summer evening at. Another memory...The Uncle Orrie (sp?) Show, on channel 7, I think. All those hyper little kids singing the "BHA means better home appliances" jingle! I wonder what ever happened to him?
driver62 16 post s 15-Apr-2007 12:11 PM	I remember the fire truck at Island Park but not the airplane. It's not exactly a safe place to go anymore with the infamous Parkside Homes right down the street. At least, there are plans to tear down Parkside. That shoud help the neighborhood a little.
JeffN 16 post s 16-Apr-2007 6:33 AM	Where exactly is Island Park? It doesn't ring a bell with me.
driver62 17 post s 16-Apr-2007 8:26 AM	Island Park is on Helena between Riverside and Stanley Avenue. It's where the bandshell is located. Kettering Fields (softball) are right up and across the street. Actually, Kettering Fields is on the location of the old McCook Field.
driver62 18 post s 16-Apr-2007 6:25 PM	Here's a few more things about Dayton in years past. Miracle Lane shopping center on Salem - nothing there now but grass. All buildings have been torn down. Miami Hardware on Salem - whatever you needed, they had it. Building has been torn down and is now a parking lot. Stumps supermarkets - there were two stores, one on Salem and one on Shoup Mill. The Salem store has some type of business in it (have no idea what it is) and the Shoup Mill store is a Super Petz or Petsmart. Frigidaire Park on Shoup Mill - long gone and a mini industrial park is on part of the land. The rest is empty. North Star drive-in theater - now a shopping center. Salem Drive-in theater - part of the land is a shopping center. The rest is empty. Stengers Ford on South Dixie - now a Super Walmart. Sears downtown store - torn down and a office building stands there. Elder-Beerman downtown - now being used for office space, I think. The last movie theater downtown, other than the Victoria, was the Loews on Main street, I think. It's now a parking lot. Some things don't change though. McAllisters Art Supply is still at Salem and Superior. The Arbys with the big hat is still on Salem. Ray's Pharmacy is still at Catalpa and Fairview. Hara Arena is still hangng around. I know there's more but that's all I can remember at the moment.
JeffN 18 post s 17-Apr-2007 10:26 AM	There's also a "big hat" Arby's on Airway. I remember when it opened ... m ust have been early 70s or there abouts. Is there still a hockey team in Dayton? Hara Arena was a great place to watch concerts, wrestling and hockey back in the 70s. Most everything has been moved to the Nutter Center now ... that that correct?
driver62 19 post s 17-Apr-2007 11:31 AM	Yep. Dayton still has a hockey team. They're called the Dayton Bombers and they're in the playoffs. They won the first two games. They do play at the Nutter Center. Not too much goes on at Hara anymore except for the annual gun and knife show and a few concerts every now and then. Dayton also has a minor league baseball team, the Dragons, a class "A" farm club of the Reds. The stadium is very nice and seats around 8000. They've sold out every game since it opened five or so years ago. Last Edited on 17-Apr-2007 11:32 AM
JeffN 19 post s 17-Apr-2007 12:21 PM	Yeah, I almost got tickets to the Reds-Marlins exhibition game that was played in Dayton earlier this month. I want to see a dragons game ... I've heard it's a real hot ticket. I'm glad Dayton still has hockey. Do the Bombers draw well? The Gems were pretty good there for a run in the 70s. I remmeber my favorite player was Sid Garant. They called them the Baby Bruins because they were affiliated with the Boston franchise. Is Don Donoher still around? He was a very underrated basketball coach, in my opinion.
driver62 20 post s 18-Apr-2007 8:59 AM	The hockey team could draw better. They had less than 2000 for a playoff game. Don Donoher is still around. He makes a public appearance every now and then. I've seen around a dozen Dragons games. If you ever get tickets, go. It's a fun time. Lawn tckets are usually available but with my back problems, I need a seat. Last Edited on 18-Apr-2007 9:02 AM
JeffN 20 post s 18-Apr-2007 11:20 AM	I may try to go to a Dragons game. I'm ging to be up there next month. How old is Donoher now? I know he was Knight's assiatant at IU for awhile. We had Jim O'Brien at UK as an assistant under Pitino after he left Dayton. I've lost track ... who is there head coach now? Oliver Purnell left didn't he?
driver62 21 post s 18-Apr-2007 3:28 PM	Daytons coach is Brian Gregory, I think. Purnell now coaches at Clemson. I have no idea how old Don Donoher is.
JeffN 21 post s 18-Apr-2007 8:21 PM	I think Donoher was the coach when Dayton played UCLA in the 1967 NCAA finals ... maybe several years before then. He's been around quite a while.
Grommet 1 post 23-Apr-2007 6:14 PM	Wow, what a great trip down memory lane. Great calls on all of these things. I loved Davue Party Supply (where I used to buy Wacky Packages) Stumps Grocery Store (the barber there used to have baby powder in plastic ketchup and mustard bottles), and Island Park (The fire truck was a kid’s playground dream). Here are some additions: Clubhouse 22 with Duffy the Dog: Does anyone remember the ‘carnival kits’ sold on this TV show, to benefit muscular distrophy? Sherrer’s Ice Cream: Sort of a poor-man’s Graeter’s back in the day. Peaches Records: I remember buying a lot of vinyl there and storing them in the signature Peaches crates. Dingleberry’s: The other place that got my music business. I think the only one left now is in Yellow Springs. Red Barn: Don't remember much about the grub at this fast food joint, but do remember a kids meal that came with a 45RPM record. It would play one of 3 songs at random. The slogan was "Only the needle knows". Bookie Parlor: I used to spend my lawn-mowing and snow-shoveling money on the comics at this place. The owner, Hal, was a great character. The building on Wayne Avenue - I think - is now a small Army recruiting center. Funway Freeway: Before the video game craze, this place was an awesome conglomeration of pinball machines. I could spend the whole day there. There was one at the Salem Mall and one at Town & Country. Kettering Village Inn: A cool little family-owned Italian joint with good deals and decent food (not as good as Dominic's). Their old lot became the site of a Bruegger's Bagels and is now Chipotle, I think. Woody’s Market: Nice old-fashioned grocery store with special items around the holidays (I remember pickled pigs feet for July 4th). NCR Park: I loved the giant pool and slides at this place. Yankee Tavern: One of the old-fashioned fancy restaurants to take your date before the school dance.
driver62 22 post s 24-Apr-2007 7:37 AM	Sherrers ice cream is still in business. They make the best ice cream. It's not cheap but it sure is good. I live a block away from what was the Davue Party Supply. My kids called it the candy store as they use to sell penny candy.
JeffN 22 post s 25-Apr-2007 9:17 AM	I remember the Kettering Village Inn ... they had great pizza. I've also been to the Bookie Parlor. Did anyone buy comics, etc., at the Dragon's Lair on 5th Street? It was open until just a year or so ago maybe. In my neck of the woods, at the Spin-Kemp Shopping Center, we had a Super Duper Grocery with the best bakery ... great donuts and fresh-baked Italian bread. We used to go buy a loaf for a dime or something ridiculous! LOL We also had Houser's Pharmacy. I bought a whole lot of baseball cards there. And they had an old-fashioned fountain with great food and milk shakes. Those were the days! Last Edited on 25-Apr-2007 9:23 AM
JeffN 23 post s 25-Apr-2007 9:22 AM	Grommet ... the thing I remember about Red Barn is they had the best onion rings. I've always had a taste for stuff not good for me!! LOL Do you guys remember Sandy's ... I think sometime in the early 70s they went from Sandy's to Hardee's. When I was a kid I preferred Sandy's to McDonald's. Gret burgers and fries, or at least it seemed like it at the time. I also enjoy visiting the Esther Price Candy Store at the Airway Shopping Center ... it's one thing that hasn't changed since I was young. They've been at the same location since 1965 or '66 and it's still going strong!
Grommet 2 post s 26-Apr-2007 1:49 PM	Driver62 - I had no idea Sherrer's was still around. Where is it located? JeffN – I did go to the Dragon’s Lair a few times back in the late 70’s/early 80’s. Even though I mostly went to the Bookie Parlor, I liked to check out Dragon’s Lair and Second Time Around for old comics every once in a while. I didn’t realize that the Lair was around as recently as a couple years ago. I’m sure I had the onion rings at Red Barn, but I must have been so young that I now don’t remember. One of the Red Barn buildings is still there, I think - now a beer drive-through on Smithville, I think. Sandy’s sounds vaguely familiar, but I can’t say for sure that I’ve been there. I definitely remember the Esther Price store! One Dayton eatery that has been there as far as I can remember is Milano's. It's not the same old building now, as you probably know, but the subs are still great. The know how to do Italian Beef right.
driver62 23 post s 26-Apr-2007 3:20 PM	Sherrer's is on north Main St. right past Nottingham Road and across from Forest Park shopping center. They still call Forest Park a shopping center although there's only 2-3 open stores there.
JeffN 24 post s 27-Apr-2007 6:58 AM	The Red Barn I ate at was on Woodman, close to where the old Gold Circle used to be. Old landmarks, LOL!
alma 1 post 1-May-2007 7:25 AM	I graduated from Stebbins in 1967. Have been in the area every since. Does anyone remember what the puppet's name was on the Uncle Orrie show?
JeffN 25 post s 1-May-2007 11:45 AM	Alma, I'm from Stebbins, too ... Class of 1979. I grew up on Spinning Road. I don't remember much about the Uncle Orrie show for some reason.
DougS 4 post s 2-May-2007 5:54 AM	LOL @ Grommet. We used to make a special trip to Woody's at West Carrollton for pigs feet. From the posts on this thread it sounds like we all liked to eat!(LOL) I went to E.J. Brown Elementary School in Dayton View. It had two huge stairways on both sides of the foyer that lead up to the second floor. I recall playing marbles in the playground beside the building was THE thing to do on recess. I remember a "picture show" on north main (south of Fairview Avenue) that had a bowling alley below it. Can't recall the names of either one, but "The 19th hole" rings a bell. This goes back into the 50's but does anyone remember Cosler's Drug Store on north main(south of Fairview Avenue)? That was where us kids got ice cream and I first "stole" anything....a pack of gum. My sister caught me and told my dad who gave me "the belt."(LOL) That's considered "abuse" nowadays, but back then it was just "consequences."(LOL) Last Edited on 2-May-2007 5:55 AM
alma 2 post s 2-May-2007 8:24 AM	JeffN I grew up on Travis Drive right behind Page Manor Apartments. I graduated from Stebbins in 1987. Have you been by Stebbins recently?
JeffN 26 post s 2-May-2007 11:29 AM	Alma ... I actually went by all my old schools (Saville, Spinning Hills and Stebbins) right before renovation and took some photos. I have driven past the new-look schools ... they are fantastic, but I miss the look of my old haunts. I'm glad they're at the same locales. I grew up on Spinning Road, so we were close in proximity. I moved away after I graduated in '79. Do you still live in the old neighborhood?
alma 3 post s 5-May-2007 8:11 AM	Jeff, I actually only live a couple of miles from Saville School. After I married I moved to Beavercreek. I go by Stebbins, Saville, Page Manor School and reflect on what they used to look like. Of course Page Manor is no longer a school and hasn't really changed much.
JeffN 27 post s 6-May-2007 9:31 AM	I can remember walking to Page Manor to register for school when I was little. I used to play baseball at a field right behind the school ... I don't think it's even there now. I had some great times in that neighborhood! I'm actually going to be in Dayton early this week. I'm looking forward to a visit! I remember when Beavercreek was rural ... it's so grown-uo now! My wife and I love the new mall.
Mike C 1 post 7-May-2007 2:05 PM	JeffN, what was the name of the shoe store at the Spin-Kemp shopping center? I use to do there with my parents to Super Duper grocery store. I liked Houser's Pharmacy because I bought all my comic books and baseball cards there. I use to like the big toys Super Duper had when you first went in the store that were up on the top shelf. I still have a few of them I got as birthday presents. That shopping center sure has gone downhill since then.
Mike C 2 post s 7-May-2007 2:33 PM	Uncle Orrie was a great show. Furdie Fusbudget, Reggie Smyth etc. Lots of good memories. Smitties Toy store was on Wayne Ave. Now it's on Wilmington Ave with the same older guys working in there. How about: Jim Quinn at WING Big D at WING Walter the Friendly Poet on the Steve Kirk Show ( wish I could get some of those short stories Walter would saw) Who was the young girl that had a TV show on WKEF in the afternoons? She was a teenager and had a cartoon show ( I think) that played weekdays when WKEF was first on. Then Joe Smith , Duffy the Dog, Malcum McCloud, Jo Cory came next. Red Barn, loved that place. They had great fried chicken. Well Parkmoor had the best "Dixie Fried Chicken". Red Barn was a hamburger/fry type thing going on. There was a Red Barn at Woodman and Rainer. That is the one I went to but there were a few more around town. Sandy's was a so-so restaurant. I think it had a Scottish type logo also. The Sandy's on Linden ave changed and became a DR's office. Burger Chef. It was close to Belmont HS ( my old HS) and the thing was to skip out and go there for lunch. The Dayton Police Office Mosconi would watch you to make sure you didn't speed or throw out your trash. There was one Woods carryout in Belmont area was the place kids would go and steal cheap bottles of liquor. Grommet, Sherrer's is at 4425 N. Main Street across from Forest Park Shopping Center , or what is left of Forest Park. I remember Forest Park had some sort of amusement park and putt putt center in it a long time ago. Then remember "The She" at the back of the back of Forest Park Shopping Center? Frisch's on Keowee (Big Boy and onion rings, cherry coke)? Country Kitchen ( Country Boy sandwich and onion rings) on Wilmington Pike? Both great crusin' stops. A& W Root Beer Stand on Woodman ( now called The Root Beer Stand- original owners son of A&W root beer owns it now.
driver62 24 post s 8-May-2007 7:30 AM	The She nite club in Forest Park. I had forgotten all about that since it closed many years ago. There was another club there called Tiffanys but it's been gone for several years. Back in the 70's, there was a J C Penny store there but it closed when they built a new store at the Salem Mall. Of course, the mall's gone now too. There's not much in Forest Park anymore but there is a lot of construction going on. I have no idea what they're building but the lot is all torn up and there's a lot of heavy construction equipment there. I didn't know the Root Beer Stand was still in business. Do they still offer curb service? They have the best root beer. Last Edited on 8-May-2007 7:34 AM
JeffN 28 post s 9-May-2007 12:05 PM	Mike C ... I remember the shoe store, but cannot recall the name of it to save me. I, too, remember going to shop every week at the Super Duper. The place smelled so good ... fresh donuts and Italian bread loaves. It's weird ... I just visited Dayton this week and actually went in the Thrift store there where Super Duper used to be. It was strange trying to think of things as it used to be. I remember the bakery being to the left as you walked in. Houser's was the best. I bought all my comics and baseball cards there, too. I also loved the fountain. We always ordered shakes and fries. I always wondered what happened to the Houser family. I remember Mr. Houser's daughter used to run the fountain area. Do you remember the Church's Chicken that used to sit at the end of Spin-Kemp Shopping Center? I think it's a run-down Mexican eatery now. Rick's Pizza keeps hanging on though! I didn't eat there, however. I did eat at Joe's on Airway ... still one of the best pizza joints in Dayton.
JeffN 29 post s 9-May-2007 12:14 PM	Hey Mike C ... do you have any photos of that area during the 70s? All I have are of my house, etc., on Spinning. If you do, email me at neals03@hotmail.com. Are you still in the Dayton area?
alma 4 post s 15-May-2007 7:53 AM	The shoe store that was in Spin-Kemp shopping center was Roderer's. I remember a neighbor of our had to have "SPECIAL SHOES" and that was the only place in Dayton that she could get them.
JeffN 30 post s 15-May-2007 10:13 AM	Alma ... yep, Roderer's sounds right! I could not think of that at all. I can't believe Rick's Pizza is still open in that little shopping center after all these years and all those changes. I drove past there last week and could see the soft pretzels they still sell. Unreal.
JohnC 1 post 30-May-2007 10:33 AM	If anyone's interested, the two "older guys" at Smitty's on Wilmington Pike are Don and Gene Smith. In my mind, they will always be as I remeber them growing up in the 70's. Both are the sons of the original "Smitty", Wilbur Smith, who started the business way back when. Smitty's is one of the last of the original "mom and pop" hobby/toy shops left. You can thank Walmart, Target, and the like for putting these great memories of our past out of business. Don and Gene are two of the nicest people you could ever meet, and to me are typical of true Daytonians and personify everything that was good about growing up in Dayton in the 60's and 70's. Another such great place was the (original) Tin Soldier in the center at Whipp Rd. and Rte. 48 in Centerville. Started by Duke Seifried (who later went on to work with E. Gary Gygax of Dungeons and Dragons fame), it was later owned by Jim and Bonnie Begley. They specialized in board games, wargames, model kits, and hobby stuff. I don't know what it is about hobby people in Dayton, but Jim and Bonnie were great people that gave a lot back to the community. BTW- on another subject-does anyone have any before and after photos of Woody's Market in West Carrollton-before demo and after demo, that is. I would appreciate any leads or links anyone might have. Thanks in advance! Last Edited on 30-May-2007 10:43 AM
driver62 27 post s 31-May-2007 8:16 AM	Curt, I moved to Dayton in 1972 after I got out of the military so I can't help you on the 60's. I don't think I have many, if any, photos of Dayton back then but I can relate a lot of stories of places I use to go that are no longer around. Most of them are in Northwest Dayton and downtown. I could probably write a book just on Salem Avenue and north Main St. I'll be happy to help in any way I can. You can e-mail me at jneiser@woh.rr.com.